For Post-Tribulation Believers.
I find it funny how all of you post-tribers like to quote verses from Daniel, and other O.T. prophets. From there you begin to quote verses from Rev. Matt. etc. claiming that they were written to the church.
Example: Matt.24. Sermon on the Mt.
Questions were asked Jesus by the Jewish apostles, concerning the Jewish temple. They asked, “What signs are we to look for?” Signs being the thing Jews lived and died by, the church lived by faith, not signs. Jesus himself was focused 100% on the Jewish people, and the nation, because it was they who He had come to seek and to save. Gentiles were grafted in later.
The 4 gospels were written for the Jews, Daniel, Zechariah, Habakkuk, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. all Jewish books, written by Jewish prophets, each writing to the Jews, about the land, and their future.
The apostles were commanded by Jesus to go the Jews, not the Gentiles.
When Jesus spoke in Matt.24, the Christian church was not born, the disciple’s new nothing about the adoption of the Gentiles into the church, the Holy Spirit was not given yet, and the Gentiles, even the good ones were considered dogs by the Jews, an unclean people. The lady at the well supports that.
Daniel was a Jew, he wrote to the Jews, he wrote about the land and the people of Israel, not the Gentiles, not the church, as did all the other O.T. prophets. Yet you post-tribers use his words to support their false doctrine, claiming them for the church.
Post-tribers have to deny the completion of God’s covenant to Abraham, claiming God is done with the Jews. You continually claim that the 144,000 are not Jews. How any honest person can come to that conclusion, boggles my mind. First the term “tribe” is used, than each Jewish tribe is specifically named. These men came from the loins of Jacob these were Jewish tribes, consisting of Jewish men, not the church.
Then you go on to claim that the 144,000, are not the Jewish tribes, but, “spiritual Israel,” Some say they are the American Indian, others, its us, the Jehovah Witnesses, or Its the saints our church has named, or its symbolic, what nonsense. You believe all that garbage, even when no such phrase (spiritual Israel) can be found written in the Scriptures. Yet you continue to deny what is clearly written.
Stop using these verses to prove your imaginary points. I doubt if any post-trib teachers have ever gone into the subject with an open mind, reasoned out the verses, and studied the true meaning of the Greek words used. After you have gathered a bag full of unrelated verses, shake them up pour them onto a table, then claiming you have proven this false doctrine of post-tribulation.
Why would God leave His bride on the earth while He is pouring out His vengeance upon it? Speak about vengeance most of you don’t even know the difference between God’s wrath, and His vengeance.
Most of you read a couple of books, watch a few ill sent preachers, hear what you want to hear, and say to yourselves, yah, that’s it, it sounds good, it sounds right, all this without considering or examining the other sides view.
My final point, if anyone is not waiting for the Lord because you believe the tribulation is coming first, my guess is, “Your not going to be received up to be with him.” You may, or may not be saved, but if left behind, a terrible future awaits you at the hands of the enemies of God, and when God’s wrath is filled to the brim, and His vengeance is poured out upon the earth.
As for me, I am waiting for the sound of that trumpet, and the voice of my Saviour crying out, “Come up hither.”
Phil LaSpino
One of my reader’s who believes in the post-tribulation rapture, posted his reasons. I responded in three parts in an article called, “They stood before the throne.” His concerns were with Rev.6:9, those under the altar, and Rev.7:9, where a great multitude was seen by John standing before the throne. You may find the article in the left hand column under the same title.
Signs, miracles, and other marvelous events for the early church, caused wander and excitement in the Jewish and Gentile communities during, and after the time of Christ. Signs that were addressed directly to man’s senses, each testifying to the existence of God’s power, extraordinary events given, so as to insure the faith of those who witnessed these signs.
These unnatural forces and events caused observers to postulate a super-natural, super human cause. In the time of our Lord, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: — For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” And when Jesus was raised from the grave, all He found was unbelief.
What common thing did the apostles, Paul, the 120 disciples, and the multitude in the crowd that were converted at Pentecost share?
They were Jews, they were all circumcised, all were under law, and all came to Christ, through various signs and wonders. None came to believe by faith alone. Let’s examine the Scriptures to see if this statement holds any water.
Let’s begin with the story of Thomas, it seems to be the most revealing.
In John 20:25, Thomas said, “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
John 20:27, “Then said He (Jesus) to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Verse .29, “Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.” Thomas needed a sign; he did not come to the faith, by faith, but by signs.
Jesus meets, and begins to walk with the two disciples on the road to a village. He talks with them, and said to them, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken.” Only after He had walked with them, spoken with them, and then opened their eyes, did they believe. Again these men were converted not by faith, but because they had spoken to, and seen Jesus, as did Thomas.
After Jesus resurrection, the disciples had been assembled in a house with the doors closed. They were in fear of their lives. Mark 16:14, Jesus appears to them as they sat to eat, and He,
Mark 16:14, “Rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.”
John 20:20, and, Luke 24:37-41, reveals to us that the apostils were terrified, and frightened, thinking they were looking at a spirit creature.
Luke 37:39, “Behold my hands and my feet, — handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones.”
The apostles now believed, but their conversion was not by faith, but by seeing, touching, and eating with the resurrected Christ.
At Pentecost, the sign of the Holy Spirit came as the sound of a mighty wind, then lighted on the apostles as cloven tongues of fire; this witnessed by thousands that stood before them. This was a sign to an unbelieving people. Another sign given to the great crowd at Pentecost, was the gift of tongues given to the apostles by the Holy Spirit, and heard by the great crowd.
1 Cor.14:22, “Where tongues = (languages) are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:” Ver.25, “And thus are the secrets (the hidden thoughts) of his (the unbeliever) heart made manifest = (known.)”
Saul, later called Paul had consented to the death of Stephen. Acts 9:1, tells us that Saul was breathing out threatening’s, and slaughter (murder) against the disciples of the Lord.
On his way to Damascus, a light from heaven shined all around him. He falls to the ground, and then hears a voice from heaven say, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?” Saul is told the voice was that of Jesus. Saul knew that Jesus had been crucified, died and was buried, yet he was now speaking to him from heaven.
This was an extraordinary event, so as to insure Saul’s faith in Christ. At this time, Saul was a powerful man, hired to hunt, put on trial, jail, or even kill Christians. Saul was converted to the faith, not by faith alone, but by this remarkable event, a sign from God.
John 3:16, “God (the Father) so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son (Jesus,) that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
After the last live witnesses of Jesus Christ passed on, the church for the most part was/is built by those who believe by faith, Heb.1:11, “In the substance of things hoped for, the evidence (conviction) of things not seen.”
Rom.3:22, “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference.” Ver.24, “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”
John 6:44, “No man can come to me (Jesus,) except the Father which hath sent me draw him.”
Many in the Christian community today, seek after signs. They sifting through, than examining current events for signs from God. In the day we are convinced in our hearts that we are sinners in need of a Savior, come to repentance, then will the Holy Spirit begin a work in us, and bring us to a saving faith in Christ.
Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com