Debate: Eternal Torment Or Universal Salvation?
Part 1:
A reader wrote about the eternal torment of hell and the lake of fire. He stated that, “The theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.
The God that Calvinistic eternal tormentors profess to love will say to his fallen creatures,
I have created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever. John Calvin said there will be infants in hell because they were not among the elect.”
The reader also insisted on the literally, not interpretive translated of the Bible concerning this issue.
Phil wrote back to the reader,
“Dear reader, I would like to debate you on this subject. I have read carefully your comments and thoughts concerning universalism, meaning universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.
Let me begin by saying that I have never read Calvin, so do not throw that up to me. What I write is from my own understanding and study of the Scriptures. I will take one of your comments at a time, respond to it, and then give you an opportunity to respond back. I do not want to jump all over the board. If this is OK, let start with your first comment you made which was directed at the literally, not interpretive translated of the Bible.
Let’s clarify the meaning of the word “literal,” as in the literal translation of the Bible.
Literal means, according to the letter, primitive; real; not figurative or metaphorical; as, the literal meaning of a phrase. Also following the letter or exact words; not free; a literal translation.
The word literal has a broad sense attached to it. Following are a few of them. A literal sense of Scripture is that which the words signify in their natural and proper acceptance, as in,
John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” This passage unequivocally asserts the Deity of Jesus Christ and His equality with the Fathers. This is the literal translation of this verse.
The literal sense of Scripture is also termed the grammatical sense; the term grammatical having the same reference to the Greek language as the term literal to the Latin, both referring to the elements of a word.
Words may also be taken properly and physically, as in,
John 1:6, “There was a man whose name was John;” This is called the proper literal sense.
When words are taken metaphorically and figuratively, meaning they are diverted to a meaning which they do not naturally mean, but which they nevertheless intend under some figure or form of speech, as when the properties of one person or thing are attributed to another, this is termed the tropical or figurative sense.
Example, When hardness is applied to stone, the expression is used literally, in its proper and natural importance. When the term stone is applied to the heart, it is used figuratively, or in an improper acceptance. Yet the sense, allowing for the change of subject, is virtually the same, its application being only transferred from a physical to a moral quality. We can find an example of it in,
Ezekiel 36:26, “A new heart also will I give you, — and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.”
This is where a heart of stone denotes a hardening in feelings, in heart, regardless of God’s warning. And the heart of flesh signifies a tender heart, susceptible to God’s mercy.
There is one more area of literal interpretation I would like to cover. It is the literal historical sense, this conveying the meaning of the words and phrases used by a writer at a certain period of time in history, as in the ancient books of the Old Testament. Also as in the historical meaning of a word in the original Greek language at the time the Septuagint Greek version of the O.T. were written.
If you have anything to add to this please do. If not, I will begin with the word “Eternal, or aion and aionios.” Do they mean endless or unlimited, or do they not?
Part 2:
The reader wrote, “I could not, Love a God who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this God would do to him for not being able to love him. Even though they were and are trusting him for their salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, he was, and still is unable to love a God who would let anyone suffer forever.”
Phil wrote, concerning part 1, “Dear reader, being I have not heard from you, I am going to assume that you agree with my last comments on literal meaning, and have nothing to add. Therefore I will continue.
You have to excuse the length of this article. But I need to establish a foundation for this discussion in order to prove or disprove the true meaning of certain Biblical words.
Certain words in Scripture have caused a division in God’s church. This rift is caused by a few who chose to translate certain words according to their limited knowledge in the languages, or just blatant deception. Small cracks have developed into great chasm of division. These divisions have isolated many, and the great danger is the loss of eternal life.
So the question,
“Does “Forever,” mean forever, without end, or does it mean something temporal? In order to resolve this difference of opinion we must turn to the scholars of Lexicons and Dictionaries?
Who are the people behind these works?
Lexicography is the science of words, that branch of learning which teaches and applies the proper signification and just application of words. A lexicon is a dictionary; a vocabulary, or book containing an alphabetical arrangement of the words in a language, with the definition of each, or an explanation of its meaning.
There are linguist who are skilled in the languages. This term is usually applied to a person well versed in the languages. They are acknowledged as teaches of Languages. Great Linguist have taught in the universities of the world.
To define a word, or the definition of a word, is to give an explanation of the signification of a word or term, or to give the idea of what a word is understood to express.
To translate means to interpret from one language into another language, words, phrases, etc. It is to also express the sense of one language in the words of another. The Hebrew O.T. was translated into the Greek language more than two hundred years before Christ. Since then, both the Old and the N.T. have been translated into most every language of the world.
A full and scientific Dictionary and Lexicon of any language, embraces a wide field of research. The serious scholars who pursue the study of languages, both critically and philologically, will not rest until they have traced each word to its origin, investigating each words primitive form and signification.
These lexicons and dictionaries establish the various forms and senses of words and phrases in which they have been used. Their study includes the way words have been used throughout different periods of history, the particular people with their dialects, and the manner and order in which all these are deduced from the original root usage. This step is very important in getting at the truth of a words meaning.
For the most part, this step is left out today, because of personal biases or a lack of effort.
Last but not least, these Lexicographer’s observe the relationship to which the words and phrases stand to other words, both in construction, phrases, and the various modifications which it has undergone in these respects. When the above points are properly made certain and arranged in the minds of linguist, then, and only then are the words mastered. Then the transcript of their view and documentation is published.
This is justly termed the histological method of Lexicography. This has grown out of the general progress of the study of ancient literature and of relevant fields. It is linguistics, historical, logical, and comparative.
1. Historical: This in the sense that a word, phrase, or passage which is deduced from the circumstances of time, place, and under which it was written, its primary sense, as opposed to any secondary or even more remote sense.
2. Logical: Logic is the science of correct reasoning, implying correct thinking and legitimate inferences from premises, which are principles assumed or admitted to be correct. Logic includes the art of thinking, as well as the art of reasoning.
3. Comparative: It is to estimate by comparison. Example, your body may be considered heavy when compared to a feather, but light when compared to a truck. To compare is to set or bring things together in fact, or in contemplation, and to examine the relations they bear to each other, with a view to ascertain their agreement or disagreement. God’s word is truth, is light, is life, is the way.
The above proceed upon the supposition that a language is in itself ancient and independent of every other language. Its words may therefore be traced to their ultimate roots within itself. This is true in both the Greek and Hebrew languages.
Languages go through stages. There is the Golden age, this is the historical base, pure and in its prime. Then because of wars, conquest, the breaking up of countries, the merging of conquered armies, the founding of new colonies, the developing of cities, cities occupied by people from every part of the world, produce changes in the original language of a community and/or country.
For example, the language of the N.T. is the later Greek language. This later form of Greek was spoken by Jews mainly. The Greek tongue that the Jews spoke was applied by them to subjects on which it had never been applied by native Greek writers.
So what was the character of this idiom spoken? It was Jewish terms, words used in their religion and culture. An idiom meaning the language of a peculiar group of people. Christianity had its’ own idioms.
Therefore, the meaning of particular Greek words used by the religious Hebrews was understood only by those who practiced that particular religion, the same holds true for Christians. A new understanding of words used by Greek writers, taken from old law, culture, and procedure was needed, and it had to be taken from the language spoken at that period of time, that tongue = (language) being Greek.
The writers of the N.T. except for Paul, and Luke, were not well educated. Like the rest of the general population, they knew the Greek language only from the intercourse of common everyday life, and not from a higher education.
With these writers, the Hebrew element of that language was mingled within their idiom, and would naturally have great prominence. The difference lies in the turn of the thought, or in the thought itself, rather than in the expression. Even where a verse is modeled after the Hebrew, it is seen more in the construction and connection of words in phrases and sentences, than as affecting the true meaning.
Have you ever listened to a foreigner try to speak our language? Many times their words take on a different form, and their construction of a sentence can hardly be understood.
The writers of the N.T. never had applied the Greek language to subjects on which it had ever been used by native Greek writers. No Greek writer had ever written on Jewish affairs, or on Jewish theology and ritual.
Therefore the writers of the N.T. were to be the instruments of making known a new revelation, this revelation being a new dispensation of mercy to mankind. A new circle of ideas and new doctrines were to be developed.
Human languages were not yet prepared for this new doctrine of salvation by grace. This poverty of language was to be done away with, by enlarging the signification and application of words already in use, rather than by the formation of new ones.
The N.T. was written by Jews, aiming to express Hebrew thoughts, conceptions, feeling’s, in the Greek tongue = (Language). Their idiom, consequently, in soul and spirit is Hebrew; but in its external form it was written in Greek. A Greek Lexicon of the N.T. is only a small portion of the Greek language as a whole.
When a good lexicon is used with the works of historians like Philo and Josephus, they containing a treasure of illustrations in respect to the facts and antiquities of the N.T. they can be of tremendous value to those that are studying. A well researched lexicon will make clear the meaning of a word, showing its authority and standing in the Greek language. It serves to show in what relation each word stands to the Septuagint and Jewish writings.
No language can contain its own truth predicate. A predicate is something that is either affirmed or denied of the subject in a proposition, or expression in logic. Why? Because if it did, then it would allow the formation of sentences such as;
“This sentence is false.” Clearly this statement is true if and only if, the sentence is false, which is an intolerable paradox! A paradox being a statement that seems to contradict common sense and yet is perhaps true.
Because Christianity has its many spiritual identifying marks, and many of its terms were unknown, the thoughts that projected Christianity, needed new terms rooted in an old language. Its’ roots are buried in the Hebrew culture, religious practices, and its language.
Part 3:
The reader wrote, “The doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. —”
Phil wrote. Let me address your statement, “The doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind.”
I assume when you say ALL mankind, you are including the most pagan, murderous, in your face sinners, will in time ALL come to glory, is this correct?
I am also assuming you believe eternity with God is forever, but the judgement and punishment of sin is a temporary state, is this correct?
Also that you believe that the Greek word “Aion,” or English “eternal or everlasting” when used in the context of hell or the lake of fire means temporary, is that correct?
Keep in mind what you stated, and what I agree with. We are to examine the words, text and context of the Scriptures in the literal sense, and literal historical sense.
So the question, “What is the meaning of “Eternal and Everlasting:”
Let’s begin with a 1851 Webster’s Dictionary the move on to the Hebrew and Greek LITERAL meaning of the word, “Eternal.”
Without beginning or end of existence. Without end of existence or duration; everlasting, endless, immortal. Perpetual, ceaseless; continued without intermission, Unchangeable, existing at all times without change; as in eternal God, eternal truth. This is the literal meaning of the word in the English language.
In the Greek, “aionios.” The literal meaning is, perpetual, everlasting, eternal.
Spoken chiefly of time future, of God, Romans 16:26, “The everlasting God.”
1 Tim.6:16, “Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, not can see: to whom be honour and power EVERLASTING.”
Septuagint for, “Everlasting is, “ad, alam, owlam, olam.” These speak of everlasting life, everlasting judgement, everlasting burning, everlasting contempt, eternal chains, everlasting fire, as in,
Genesis 21:33. Isaiah 40:28, “The everlasting God.”
Of the happiness of the saved, Matthew 19:29, “Shall inherit everlasting life.”
Of punishment, Mark 10:30, Matthew 25:46, “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
In the two verses Matthew 19:29, and Matthew 25:46, we can contrast the difference between everlasting life, and everlasting punishment, same Greek word. See John 3:15-16-36. Romans 2:7.
2 Cor.4:17, “For our light affliction, which is but for a MOMENT (temporary) works for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.
Here again is a stark contrast between the idea of temporary and eternal.
“May have life eternal,” is opposed to, “Cannot see” and cannot enter.”
John 3:15, coll. with verse 3-5, Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Verse 5, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the (Holy) Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
The Greek word “cannot,” is absolute. By Hebrewism is to see, as to experience, either good, to enjoy, or evil, to suffer, sequence, present participle to follow, accusative, is a term given to a case of nouns, on which the action of a verb (cannot see, and cannot enter) terminates or falls. See also, Luke 2:26. Hebrews 11:5. Septuagint Ps.89:48, “What is a man that lives and shall not (cannot) see death.” Acts 2:27-31, 13:35, seq. Septuagint and Hebrew Psalms 16:10. Rev.18:7. 1 Pet.3:10. Ps.34:12. To see and enjoy the privileges of the Divine kingdom, John 3:3. Compare, Septuagint and Hebrew Ps.27:13. Exodus 6:6.
Matt.19:16, “One came and said unto Him (Jesus,) Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” Jesus responded, Ver.21, “Come and follow me.”
The point! For those who do not follow Jesus Christ, they cannot have eternal life, now or forever.
Acts 13:46, “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”
Note in Acts, it is not God that sends people to eternal destruction, but they send themselves.
Of the punishment of the wicked,
Matt.18:8, Matt.25:41-46. Mark 3:29, “But he (anyone) that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never (no) forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.”
The Greek word “NEVER” in Mark 3:29, means, NOT EVER.
2 Thes.1:9; Heb.6:2. Jude 7. Septuagint for, “Everlasting,”
Daniel 12:2, “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to EVERLASTING life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING contempt (abhorrence.)”
Everlasting life and everlasting contempt are the same Hebrew word.
Generally, 2 Cor.4:18, 5:1; Heb.9:14, “Eternal (everlasting) Spirit,” Heb.13:20. 1 John 1:2. Rev.14:6. Philem.15, as an adverb, “Forever, always.” Sept. Gen.9:16. 17:7, God’s “Everlasting covenant.”
I found it interesting that there are Hebrew and Greek words which distinguish between things being eternal and other things being temporal.
The word temporal or temporary in English means, Lasting for a time only; existing or continuing for a limited time. Measured or limited by time, or by this life or the state of things; having limited existence, opposed to eternal.
The Greek word for temporal is, proskairos. An adjective meaning for a season as transient, temporary, enduring for a while,
In the following verses there is a variation in the words, but they mean the same. “For a while,” “For a time,” “Temporal,” and, “For a season,” are the same Greek word, “proskairos.”
2 Cor.4:18, “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are TEMPORAL; and the things which are not seen are eternal.”
Matt.13:21, “Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth (endures) FOR A WHILE.”
Mark 4:17, “And have no root in themselves, and so endure but FOR A TIME.”
Hebrews 11:25, “Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin FOR A SEASON (temporary.)”
Now if God meant that Hell, or the eternal lake of fire were temporary, He would have used the Greek word “proskairos,” instead of, “Aion?”
“Aion” is a derivative from “Aci, always, and “on,” the present particle of the verb “eimi, to be. Its meaning, “Always-being,” which is the same as “Everlasting.” Duration without interruption and without end.
It does not mean being alone. This definition would give to us the force of only half the compound word, the, “on,” but not the “aei.”
Let’s examine the Historical literal interpretation of the word eternal.
“Aion” is formed from “aei and on.” How was the word “aion,” implying eternal understood at the time the O.T. was first translated into Greek?
The Septuagint, was in use among the Jews in the time of Christ. The Septuagint was made from the original Hebrew, about 300 years before Christ.
Both “Oulm or olim” are used about 288 times invariably translated by the Greek “aion.” It was used by translators as having an equivalent meaning. So how was the word “aion,” understood among the Greeks.
Aristotle, the great Greek philosopher, the great thinker, student of Plato, about 367 B.C. about the time the Septuagint was written, wrote the following excerpt on how “Aion,” was used.” This is also how the Hebrew scholars used the word in that period.
Aristotle wrote, “For the period which comprehends the time of every one’s life, beyond which according to nature nothing exists, is called his (aion) eternity. and for the same reason also, the period of the whole heaven, even the infinite time of all things, and the period comprehending the infinity, is (aion) eternity, etc. etc.”
We also have Taylor, in his Hebrew Concordance, gives (eis aiona) in 175 cases the sense of forever. Gesenius in his celebrated Lexicon, assigns as its primary proper signification, the sense of (ervigkeit) eternity. The same signification belongs to (aion) in the Septuagint, meaning unlimited duration.
When properly used, the above appears to be irrefutable proof that the word “Aion,” eternal does mean forever, being of eternal duration. This is my evidence, it speaks for itself.
The advocates of a limited meaning have adopted the following rule of interpretation. Where a word such as “eternal,” is used in relation to various things or subjects, the subject itself must determine the meaning of the word.
But this involves a gross unsound and misleading argument that on the surface may appear reasonable.
This would imply that words have no correct meaning of their own, and that they are to stand for nothing in the decision of meaning, but are to mean any thing that the subject to which they relate can be proved to mean without them.
But the correct rule of interpretation in all cases is, that the subject this including the scope of the passage, determines whether a word should be taken in a literal or figurative sense.
This allows every word to have a proper meaning of its own, only modified by the scope of the passage in which it is introduced.
Without this rule, it reduces words to mere ciphers, or a method of transforming a text in order to conceal its meaning. If this were so, it would annihilate language as the method of communicating ideas.
Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com