Problem with Post Tribulation
A major problem with those who do NOT believe in the pre-trib rapture is they understand that the Lord will return only one more time: This is incorrect. This is the mistake the Jews made when Christ came in the flesh the first time.
In this there is confusion. Jesus will return for His Bride, meeting them in the air. He will then return to heaven with her for the great wedding supper of the Lamb, (7 years.) This follows the type given to us in the Jewish wedding ceremony. After the 7 years, He will return ALONE to deal with His enemies.
In this 7 years period, Jesus will send (HIS ANGELS) to take care of business with His enemies. Jesus will show His power and might to the world through the Jewish people and their nation, by completing the remainder of unfulfilled prophecies made some 2700 + years ago.
In this 7 year period, 144,000 will be marked by God, and sent to minister to the Gentile nations. Also the two (2) witnesses will preach the Gospel outside the gates of Jerusalem. Many will come to know the Lord during this period, but will be killed for their belief.
After this, HIS ELECT, 144,000 will be gathered by the angels to be with the Lord on Mt. Zion. Rev.14:1-2-3-4-5. This is the second time He descended from heaven.
After 7 years and a few days, Jesus will go (Alone) and destroy the enemies of the Jewish people who remain. Isa.63:1-2-3-4. Vengeance is His, and it will be served.
Satan will then be bound for 1000 years.
Jesus will set up His kingdom for this 1000 year period here on earth. At the end of the 1000 years Satan will be turned loose for the finial war against God. After this final conflict, will come the final judgement Scriptures refer to as the great white throne judgement, Rev.20:4.
The church, the Bride of Christ is already with the Lord, having been judged righteous. The proof of this lies in their (those who are dead, and the living) being take up to meet the Lord in the air, 1 Thes.4:14-15-16.
There is no need for any further judgements concerning His Bride. They have been sealed in that they have been taken up (raptured.) 1 Thes.
4:14, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. With ver.17, "and so shall we ever = (always) be with the Lord."
No person can ever make me believe that the Lord would leave His bride to suffer a judgement that will COME FROM HEAVEN, BY HIS OWN HAND. Would you put your family through something that is meant for your enemies? Of course not, what would be the purpose when you have it within your power to take them out of harms way, as He did Noah?
Saxvangelist wrote, "In this chapter it is my intent to show that in Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus Christ was speaking privately to a group of His disciples, namely: Peter, James, John and Andrew, who although Jewish, were the future leaders of His Church. And therefore, he was indeed speaking to his church in this passage, and not to the flesh and blood children of Abraham, or to Israel, as is taught by those who hold to the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
I also intend to show that “his elect” in this passage is indeed Christ’s church, Christ’s elect, those who belong to him, his chosen ones, the spiritual Israel, those who have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, both Jew and non-Jew, and are the New Testament election of grace, and not the Old Testament elect, flesh and blood sons and daughters of Abraham, or Israel, as is taught by pre-tribulation rapture." theology.
Beloved, the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine inadvertently teaches Christians that they will never have to suffer any real persecution for their faith in Christ. It misleads Christians into believing they will never have to face any severe persecution, and certainly will never have to face martyrdom. It plants the false idea into their minds that God would never require them to die for their Savior.
Phil wrote, "you claim that you will prove Biblical that the pre-tribulation rapture of the church is a false teaching. Yet in your first two paragraphs you made several errors. Your suppositions on this very important subject are not Scriptural, but hocus pocus.
Lets start with your phrase, "spiritual Israel." I challenge you to show me one verse in the Bible that states that the church is ever called spiritual Israel, having replaced Israel as a people, nation or land. This began with the Catholic church, and was picked up by other sects and cults. Can God not finish the Abrahamic covenant He made for the future Jewish people?
An important question is, when was the new covenant church born? It surely was not on the Mt of Olives while He was speaking to the apostiles.
After His sermon, we read in Matt.24:56, "All the disciples forsook him, and fled." The word forsook is to abandon, to forsake, to leave out on a limb. It appears that the foundation stones were about to crumble. So the question remains, when did the New Covenant begin?
Col.1:14, "In whom we (the church) have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins." With,
Col.1:18, "He (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence."
Here we have it. Jesus was the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, from Him came the church, His apostiles being the foundation stones laid against the chief corner-stone. On this foundation every other Christian is established.
As Jesus spoke to the apostiles on the Mt. of Olives, in Matt.24, all men were under the old covenant law, as was John the Baptist, and every other prophet, Jew and Gentile who died before the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
All these from Adam to Christ will be judged by the law. The miracle of Christ's death is that His sacrifice is retroactive to day one (1) of the creation. His blood will cover all those who came before Him. Rev.13:8, "He was a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Upon Jesus resurrection the church was born. In this, every person from that time on will be judged on their receiving of denying the works of our Lord. This is called the new covenant.
Therefore, YOUR statement concerning Matt.24, "Therefore, he was indeed speaking to his church in this passage," is a false statement.
The church was yet future. Jesus gave them no information concerning the church in Matt.24, but spoke only of the future of the Jews', the hardships, scattering and destruction that will follow His death.
The destruction of the Jewish nation began in 70 A.D, and will continue until the "Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
The statement Jesus made in Matt.24:21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
This cannot be the destruction by the Romans. Why? Hitlers slaughter and the Russian persecution of the Jews' was far worse. Yet the Scriptures speak of an even more destructive period to come.
In Matt.24:32, Jesus speaks of the fig tree. This has always been a symbol for the nation of Israel.
Christ came to seek and to save the lost sheep of Israel, not the Gentiles. His personal words were for the Jews' alone. Later Paul would be commissioned to go to the Gentiles with the gospel.
The questions asked in Matt.24.1-2, by the apostiles were from the standpoint of a Jewish people, their religion, economy and future.
The destruction of the temple spoken of by Christ in Matt.24:2, had nothing to do with the future church. The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. God had not been seen in the temple for over 400 years.
But Christ said in Mark 13:2. "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
Who was this generation that Jesus was speaking of in Matt.24:34, that He said would witness these things? Was it the generation that saw the temple destroyed in 70 A.D? NO. It was yet a future generation. Why?
Note the plural "buildings," Mark 13:1. Also the phrase "not be left one stone upon another." NOT ONE, is absolute, it means not one, none. God choses His words carefully so there is no mistaking them.
The fort, or tower of Antonia still stands. This was a building within the temple area that would have been included in the word, "buildings." Also the Western, or Wailing wall, remains standing to this day, one stone standing upon another. So either Jesus did not know what He was talking about, or the prophesy is yet future.
One day these two edifices, and hopefully the Dome of the Rock, will come tumbling down. When they do, the generation that witnesses these events will be the generation Jesus was speaking of.
These things will happen after the church is caught up to be with the Lord. Then will the tribulation from God begin.
Phil LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com